Donnie Kelly (Transcript)

Robby Incmikoski: All right, here we go. Donnie Kelly, by the way, you're the 54th interview for this book. We're going to do about 100. I actually got Josh Harrison tomorrow. We're going to talk about going to White Sox games as a kid. I'm talking to him about Chicago, not even about playing for the Pirates. It's going to be pretty cool.

All right, hey Donnie. First of all, let me talk to you about a few things. Number one, the first thing I want to ask you about—you played all nine positions in baseball. How cool is that? Now that your playing career's over, looking back on that, what is that experience like for you, just having done it at least once in all nine positions?

Donnie Kelly: Yeah, really cool. Ten, if you count designated hitter—that's true, that's right. Ten. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. And thinking back on it, I often think about guys that did it all in one game, which was cool. Looking back, would that have been awesome? It would have been, but I joke with some of the guys that have done it—talking to Andrew Romine, who I love—just saying like, I did it when I was needed to do it in a game. I had to go in to catch, I had to go in to pitch that third of an inning, which was an unbelievable experience. But to be able to bounce around and know that you played every position on the field is really cool.

Robby Incmikoski: How do you describe the feeling? Was your major league debut—I'm sorry, I didn't look this up—was your first game you played in Pittsburgh, or were you on the road?

Donnie Kelly: We were on the road in Houston.

Robby Incmikoski: In Houston, but then you came home and played home games. So I asked Neil Walker about this, and I talked to other people who grew up in the city and ended up playing there, which is a really cool story. How special is that for you to play a game in PNC Park, being a kid who grew up here?

Donnie Kelly: It was really cool. It's a dream come true. It was a dream come true to play in the big leagues, but then to be able to do it with your hometown team was unbelievable. I think that for myself—and I wasn't a starter, I was a bench guy—but guys like Neil Walker, it's a blessing, but it's also tough. It's a curse, because you're from there, and you put so much—I know how much both of those guys put on their shoulders trying to carry that weight of being a yinzer and playing for the Buccos and trying to compete at a high level, which they both did for a long time. But it was awesome to be able to play at home.

Robby Incmikoski: When you are standing in that batter's box—I fully understand you are paying attention to the game, you want to perform at your highest level possible—but when you were wearing a Pirates uniform, I know it's for only 25 total games, but did you stop and take it all in for a minute? Think, "Man, this is pretty cool"?

Donnie Kelly: Yeah, well, it's funny you say that, and I don't know where you're trying to go in the interview, but you know when it hits me now, as a bench coach, I'm one of the last ones to leave, and I walk out through the field to get to the garage and nothing is going on. The city's lit up. The lights are dim at the ballpark, but it's just surreal that I get to do that.

Robby Incmikoski: And just so you know, man, there's nothing controversial here. I just want to dig deep into your mindset, because I want fans to read what players think. I had Jamie Carroll—remember Jamie Carroll had the big sacrifice fly in '07 when Holliday scored to put them ahead? He told me the story about how when he was walking from the on-deck circle, he kept looking back, waiting to get pulled back. It was unbelievable. He's like, "Why are they hitting me in the 13th inning of this game?" So just know, I'm looking for stuff like that. I'm not looking for juice or anything.

Think of how many kids dreamed of playing for the Pirates at that stadium. That was your dream your whole life. You've got to live that dream. That's what I'm getting at. You've got three boys, a wife, a family—that's got to be one of the coolest things in your entire life that's ever happened. Would you agree?

Donnie Kelly: Yeah, dude, there's—yes, it's up there. It's so cool. And I still pinch myself. It's still so cool. Coaching now, walking out through—talking about my boys, that's even more special. When they stay after a game and they're hanging out, and I get to walk out with them when nothing else is going on, it's really cool. PNC Park is a special place, as you know. It's the number one ballpark in America. There's no question about that.

Robby Incmikoski: Now, let me ask you this. How different is PNC Park? How do you view PNC Park as a player versus a coach? Is there any difference? I'm just curious if there's anything there.

Donnie Kelly: Good question. Man, I don't know. I don't think I view it any differently. I think that—and you've been to some of the newer ballparks—I think that it is getting older. Inside, I think. Outside, it's still phenomenal, as far as the seats and the view and they updated the scoreboard recently and that type of stuff, and they've started to renovate a little bit underneath. It's not Oakland Coliseum, obviously, which was terrible, and Tampa and that. But compared to where some of the other major league ballparks are, I think they're going to start to renovate and make some improvements for the players.

Robby Incmikoski: All right, now, let's move on from that. Thank you for talking about that. Just a few things to talk about—nine positions, playing at PNC Park. Couple other things. Let's talk about Kansas City, the final game of 2012. I remember Leyland pulled Miggy from the game. How special is it to be there and watch your teammate win the Triple Crown? What was that like, and what was the feeling like in the dugout and in the clubhouse after the game?

Donnie Kelly: I get chills thinking about it. I mean, you talk about a guy that was unbelievable. He dominated the sport. Arguably one of the best right-handed hitters of all time. Him and Pujols of this era. And to be there and see Brian Britten, at the time, was our PR director, and I remember him being underneath, understanding what needed to happen for him to win the batting title, which gave him the Triple Crown. And once that was all said and done and Skip pulled Miggy from the game—it was Ted Williams in '67, 45 years before. And you sit there, and it was history. Everybody knew it. Everybody respected Miggy, the person and the player. And it was just really awesome to be a part of that.

Robby Incmikoski: What did you guys do that night after the game? Can you tell us any stories? Did you guys do a celebration in the clubhouse or anything like that?

Donnie Kelly: I don't even remember what—I don't think there was anything huge. I think Skip just got up and talked and congratulated him. I don't think there was a dinner that night, but the acknowledgment in the clubhouse. I think Leyland just got up and congratulated him. I think it was actually the next day before the game or before our workout, because that year we ended up playing Oakland, I believe, in the playoffs.

But Miggy was just one of a kind, man. Hey, the guy's going in the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, no questions asked. In fact, whoever doesn't vote for him should have their privileges revoked.

Robby Incmikoski: I agree. Now, what made him special that year? Hall of Fame career, but to do that, what made him special that year that you noticed in your other years playing with him?

Donnie Kelly: Man, I don't know if it was—he was just so consistent. Every year that he was up there batting, you talk about a guy that with all three of those—batting average, home runs, and RBIs—every single year was just putting up numbers. I don't know if there was anything different that he did, because he was so consistent in the way that he approached the game and how he had a knack for driving in runs.

He would come up with nobody on, two outs, and he wasn't just trying to get on base. He was trying to hit a double or hit a homer. But he came up with second and third, two outs, and his whole approach would change. He knew there were RBIs in right-center field with a single, and he would cut down and take his base hit and knock in two runs, and then we're up 2-0. It was just the way that he went about it, the way he understood the game, how smart of a hitter he was.

Really simple approach at the plate, stayed short, stayed simple. And if a pitcher made him look silly early in the count, he'd come back later, and he knows he's going to go back to it, and he just had the knack to be able to sit on it and hit it wherever he wanted to hit it.

Robby Incmikoski: What was it like playing at Comerica Park? What was that experience like for you?

Donnie Kelly: Oh, it was phenomenal. It was phenomenal from a fan standpoint—we were drawing 3 million every year at Comerica. And it was electric. It was really cool to play in. Now, I will say, as a hitter, it was not so phenomenal. It was huge at the time. I think it was 420 to center, maybe 430 to the right-center field, like the corners in left-center and right-center. It was like 430.

And you hit a ball—I remember, you'll like this. I hit a ball, absolutely crushed it. It was all I had. Wind was blowing out too, probably because for me to get it to 430 I needed a little bit of help with the wind, and Alex Rios ran it down. We're playing the White Sox. He runs it down on the warning track, catches it. I'm jogging back to the bench frustrated.

Next at-bat, I come up, and I get jammed so bad, and I hit one of those little duck farts over the shortstop for a base hit. And I get to first base, and—I don't know if you can edit out the language, but Paul Konerko goes, "Man, ain't that some shit." I was like, "Dude, I'll take 200 of those." He goes, "No, I would too." He said, "You get a base hit on that, and the ball that you hit that should have been a homer in every other ballpark was an out the at-bat before." And it was just like everybody understood that Comerica was huge, but there were a lot of base hits, or a lot of doubles, triples, and then if you had some power, you could get it out of there.

Robby Incmikoski: I interviewed Tim Welke the other day, the former umpire, and he umpired the 2002 All-Star game that ended in a tie in Milwaukee, when he was crew chief that night. I said, "When you walk over to Bud Selig, what did he say?" He goes, "Are you fucking shitting me?" or "Are you fucking kidding me?" He goes, "Yes, you can print that." So anything goes.

So speaking of that, was it frustrating for hitters at times to know that anywhere in that—for lack of a better term—triangle, even though it's not really a triangle? We always talked about how spacious that outfield was. How did hitters approach it?

Donnie Kelly: No man, you can hammer a ball 400-some-odd feet and it could be an out. Yeah, it's frustrating. It's tough. You learn how to hit line drives more, especially if you don't have the power. That's when you're talking about Miggy, and just what he was able to do—he would hit the ball to right-center, opposite field, better, further, harder than a lot of left-handers could pull it. And he was—I mean, just think about the home run numbers that he would have put up if he didn't play at Joe Robbie, which I never had the chance to play at, but I heard was huge, and Comerica Park. He would have been up in the 50s and probably 60 consistently, if he had a home field that was like that.

But it got frustrating. But you kind of knew what the ballpark was, and you accepted it. You could either sit there and complain about it and then you're going downhill faster, or go up there and adjust and hit line drives.

Robby Incmikoski: One other thing I want to talk to you about at Comerica Park—the dirt that goes between the pitcher's mound and home plate. What do guys make of that? What's the deal with that? Do you know much about it?

Donnie Kelly: I don't know much about it. I don't know why they do it, because I'm sure it's harder than just grassing it over and cutting it. You have to keep those lines straight and do it. I'm really not sure. That's a really interesting question.

Robby Incmikoski: I could get you in touch with Heather Nabozny if you want to interview her. She is on my list. I do want to talk to her for the book if I can.

Donnie Kelly: Yeah, I think I have her number. We'll talk about that offline, because I would love to. I just hope I don't have to go through PR because they're awful to deal with, but we'll see.

Robby Incmikoski: All right, let's talk about the Jim Joyce, the Armando Galarraga perfect game. Obviously, Jim felt awful, and he tells a story of how he's from Toledo, Ohio, and he went back and sat in a chair where his dad used to sit, and was crying that night because he felt awful for the missed call. And I don't think, Donnie, I don't think either side could have been more classy with how they handled it in public. Armando was first class. Jim was first class. Both sides represented themselves really well on what was simply just a mistake. It was a missed call, nothing more. Jim Joyce had a great career. He was a great umpire. But how surreal was that, given that there's only been 24 perfect games in the history of baseball?

Donnie Kelly: Oh, it's real surreal. And even thinking about it now, it's crazy. And you're right. Jim was very highly respected, good umpire. Wanted to get things right. You could talk to him about calls and stuff. So for that to happen to him, and then with Armando—I remember I didn't start that game. I was on the bench, and Gene Lamont comes up to me in the bottom of the eighth inning and he's like, "Hey, go get loose. You're going to go into left field." And I look up and I'm like, this is a perfect game. It was crazy. And now I'm going in.

It was 1-0 at the time because we were going into the bottom of the eighth. I remember Mark Teahen was leading off that inning. Typically in a 1-0 game, if a player hits a ball—sinking line drive down the line or in—you're going to play it into a single in order to keep the double play in order. You're not going to lay out unless you know 100% that you're going to catch it. You're going to play it into a single, keep the double play in order, and go from there. In a perfect game or no-hitter, you better lay out for that ball and catch it.

Well, thankfully, we scored two runs. I think it made it 3-0 going into the top of the ninth. And I went in and Mark Teahen didn't hit the sinking line drive. He hit a missile in the left-center field gap, and thank goodness Austin Jackson ran it down. I was a slow white guy coming in on the back side of the play, trailing him, but he ran it down, got the next guy out, and then Jason Donald hit that ball that was the call that didn't go our way, didn't go Armando's way.

And you feel for him, but he handled it with class. Leyland did too. And there's a lot of behind the scenes—they met down by the umpires' room in the tunnel, and apologies and everything. You just feel for Armando and Jim Joyce, especially being from there and dealing with that.

Robby Incmikoski: Do you think—and again, you don't have to answer this question, but I've read, and I have no idea if any of this is true—do you think one day MLB, now that replay is in effect, could credit him with the out?

Donnie Kelly: I don't know. I think it's up for discussion. I never really thought about that too much myself. I don't know how I'd feel about that. I don't know how Armando would feel about that. It's an interesting question.

Robby Incmikoski: What kind of guy was Armando? What kind of teammate was he?

Donnie Kelly: Good guy. Quiet, went about his business. And really good for us through those couple years.

Robby Incmikoski: Here's something I've always wanted to know. When you're on defense and a guy has a perfect game, even for one inning—what the hell are your nerves like as you're running out to left field? What the hell are you thinking?

Donnie Kelly: I mean, that's obviously the latest that I've gotten into a game in that type of scenario. When you talk about Verlander having the no-hitter in Toronto, it's special. It's history. And to get that far, for me to have the opportunity to go in and play in that game, in that moment—your heart's racing, man. I can't imagine being the pitcher trying to slow that down.

Robby Incmikoski: Did anybody in the dugout, as the game's playing out, at what point do you guys stop talking to him? Or did he keep business as usual? Do you remember any of that?

Donnie Kelly: I don't. I would say that with most guys, most guys that are starting, a lot of guys don't talk to them during the game, especially when something like that's going on. But yeah, it was crazy too. And the crazy part about it, I think they ruled it a hit too, didn't they? The Jason Donald, yeah, it was a little infield single. And he lost a no-hitter too.

They could have ruled it an error, I don't know, but to lose a perfect game and a no-hitter on a controversial call—that was just tough for him.

Robby Incmikoski: Did he get a nice car out of it?

Donnie Kelly: He got what? Oh yeah, the next day they had set up—because of the way he handled it, GM gave him one of those brand new Corvettes, and they brought it out on the field, and he took the lineup card out to Jim Joyce. I'm sure there were some tears shed at home plate too, but yeah, because of the way that he handled it and the sportsmanship, GM gave him a brand new Corvette.

Robby Incmikoski: What was the vibe like around the ballpark? What was the vibe like in the clubhouse after that game? Obviously, you won.

Donnie Kelly: It was weird. We won, but you felt like—individual accomplishments come second behind the team, but a perfect game is a perfect game. And everybody wants to see your teammate do that, of course. In the clubhouse after the game, I think it was more somber and questioning. That's what I remember it being—not terrible, but just like a deflated win.

Robby Incmikoski: How many of those have you experienced in your life? Probably not very many, right? You won, but you lost.

Donnie Kelly: Yeah, not many at all. I probably couldn't even recall many like that. I wouldn't think so.

Robby Incmikoski: What was it like being Verlander's teammate? He won the MVP and Cy Young in 2011. What a year that was for the Tigers.

Donnie Kelly: Verlander was 2011. And the only reason I know that, Robby, is because I do remind Justin that he won the MVP and Cy Young, and he didn't even have the best ERA on our team that year. I did. I had zero. Rick Porcello and I had like two scoreless innings. I reminded everybody my ERA was zero.

Verlander is a competitor, man. You talk about a guy that wants to be 60 feet, 6 inches away from you, and as a coach now, you want him to be on the mound in those big games. He wants to be that guy.

Robby Incmikoski: Donnie, can you just tell me what it was like on a game night—Saturday night or Friday night, the vibe is good, you're playing a rival team, and you're at Comerica Park, Justin Verlander's on the mound, and Miguel Cabrera's hitting third. You had Prince Fielder, you had Victor Martinez, you had some damn good teams you played for there. What was a packed game night like at Comerica Park during that era?

Donnie Kelly: Electric. It was packed every—it didn't matter if it was a night game, day game, whatever, it was completely packed. And there was an expectation to win every single night that we went out there. You expected to win, especially with Verlander. And honestly, Robby, that 2011 year when he took the mound, you expected that it was going to be a no-hitter. He just had that kind of stuff, that kind of year, that he would go out there and absolutely dominate. And you were shocked when they got their first hit. You're like, "Oh, it's not going to be a no-hitter tonight," because there were so many times he took it so deep into the game where they wouldn't have a hit until the fifth, sixth, seventh inning.

Robby Incmikoski: What was it like having those guys as teammates? You had Verlander, you had Scherzer, Miggy. What was having those three guys as teammates? What was the vibe like?

Donnie Kelly: Oh, it was great. So Miggy—Verlander on his start day, you don't talk to him. He is locked in from the time he gets there. He's just locked in. Scherzer, once he had his meeting before the game, and once he put his headphones on, he was locked in. Miggy was more quiet-ish. There were times he was louder, but more quiet and just focused every day.

But you think about Torii Hunter, Victor Martinez, we had Austin Jackson in center field for all those years, Alex Avila. And at one time, we had Scherzer, Verlander, Anibal Sanchez, Doug Fister, Porcello—Porcello didn't even start in the playoffs for us. He would be the long man in the playoffs. He won the Cy Young in Boston. He would be the long man in the playoffs. So just thinking back on those teams, it was really special. And it stinks that we never won the whole thing. Losing to the Giants in 2012 and then the Red Sox.

That might be a good one to talk about. I'm sure you'll get a lot on Fenway. But I was in left field when David Ortiz hit the grand slam to tie the ALCS in 2013 Game 2. We were up 5-1, and he hit the grand slam. And I remember I had just gone in for defense. I think it was for Johnny Peralta. And Torii Hunter is tracking it. I see him go—I thought he caught it because he lost it in the lights. And if you go back and watch the replay, he overran it. The ball went in between his glove and his head. So from my vantage point in left field, I lost track of the ball. I thought it went into his glove, and then he flipped over. That's the one where he flipped over the right field wall, and the security guard or cop is up in there cheering. And I'm like, "What?" Because from my vantage point, I thought it was the best catch in the history of Major League Baseball that Torii made, which he was quite capable of doing.

Robby Incmikoski: What was that like that night? You're the visitor at this point. What's it like being on the wrong end of that at a place like Fenway Park?

Donnie Kelly: Oh buddy, unbelievable. You talk about the atmosphere there. You know what's going to surprise you that was electric? The Oakland Coliseum in the playoffs. You've been there, right? It's like nobody is there during the regular season. And you go there in the playoffs, and it was probably the most electric place that we played—Oakland.

Really. First time we went out there, we won the first two games in Detroit, went out there for game three, and we thought it was going to be more like the regular season. And it was like a pissed-off beehive. It was unbelievable.

Robby Incmikoski: How's that? You're not close to the fans in the outfield, because of the foul territory, right?

Donnie Kelly: What I think it is, is that it's a concrete structure that's fully enclosed. Think about all the new stadiums now. There's a lot of parts of it, in the outfield or somewhere, open to something—open to the outside in some way. That place is fully enclosed, and everything stayed in. It was electric, really.

Robby Incmikoski: That is interesting. I got a couple people I got to track down for Oakland. That's a trend. I didn't think anybody would say that.

Donnie Kelly: When Grant Balfour would come in, oh, they went nuts. That whole shaking their heads thing, I remember that, man. That's cool.

Robby Incmikoski: I don't really have anything else for you, man. Maybe later on, we'll clarify something, but I don't really have anything else. I just wanted to talk about the perfect game, playing all nine positions. Oh, speaking of one more question, and this is for the fans that might not know—there's so many utility players. I mean, they have a Gold Glove for utility, and Triolo is a finalist, right? You did it before everybody else did it, kind of. I mean, there were guys that played multiple positions, obviously, but you could play infield, you could play outfield with regularity. What is the biggest challenge trying to be good at multiple positions? And now you're a coach, coaching guys trying to be good at that.

Donnie Kelly: So what I learned for myself is that I had to be ready to play third base. Because for me, third base was the hardest of the positions I was going to play regularly. I wasn't going to catch, I wasn't going to pitch, I wasn't going to play short on a regular basis. I could if I had to, but I wasn't going to typically play those. Third base of the remaining was the hardest one for me to play because of the speed of the game. It's the hot corner, especially in the big leagues. So I had to be ready to play there. And then if I was ready to play there, I felt like I could handle all the other ones, and so I would just bounce around.

I would take ground balls every day at third base, and then I would bounce around on subsequent days just to where I thought I may end up going in. But there was no science to it, really. It was just finding a way. And if I felt like I needed extra work—and this is what I tell our guys, like Triolo—I tell them all the time, "You guys need to figure out what you need. I can't tell you exactly how to prepare, exactly what to do. We're always here for you if you need more, if you need something extra, if you need ground balls, if you need to hit—whatever it is, we need to figure out what is going to get you prepared to compete that night and be ready to go." And he's phenomenal.

Robby Incmikoski: One last question, and this is not specific to you, just in general. And again, this is for fans, not for me—I obviously know the primary role of a bench coach on a day-to-day basis, as opposed to other coaches. How would you describe it to fans that are curious about exactly what a bench coach does?

Donnie Kelly: Coordinating everything. I'm involved in the daily schedule, sending everything out, from bus times to hitting times to infield times—everything that goes on on a daily basis runs through the bench coach. And then you're involved in conversations with players, with the manager, with setting out the lineup, sending out communication, just making sure that everybody knows every day what's going on and how we're going to prepare for the game. And then during the game, being involved in all the conversations from hitting, pitching, everything.

Robby Incmikoski: What are some of the discussions like if somebody hangs a curveball, or makes even a mental error? Are you guys like, "Can you fucking believe this? We fucking told him not to fucking do that"?

Donnie Kelly: You know what? It's funny, because your gut maybe wants to do that. But I was a guy that caused my coaches, as a manager, to do the same thing. So really trying to keep that in mind—I wrote down when I was done playing, "Don't ever forget dot, dot, dot," because I don't ever want to forget how hard it is what these guys are going through every day to compete at that level. Yes, they're major league players, they're the best in the world, they're extremely talented, but it's still the game of baseball, and we're still going to make those mental mistakes. We're still going to hang the curveballs. We're still going to screw things up at times.

And that's what I try to tell the players, and I try to tell my boys at home—yes, things are going to happen. I'm not as worried about what happened. We can work on that, we can train, we can go back and fix that. I'm worried about what's going to happen on the next play. How do you continue to stay in the moment, stay present, compete at your highest level, even when you fall short and you screw things up?

Robby Incmikoski: Yep. That's amazing.