Kevin Stocker (Transcript)

Robby Incmikoski: All right, Stock. Here we go, man. Hey, I want to ask you—it's kind of crazy. We've heard from umpires who've umpired the World Series, players who played in World Series. You're one of them. What is it like standing on the line when the first game of World Series is about to be played? You had it in Philly, then you had it in Toronto. What is that feeling like, getting introduced just knowing you're on the biggest stage the game has to offer? What is that like for a player?

Kevin Stocker: You know what? There's two different feelings. There's the at-the-moment feeling, and then 20 years later, whatever it is, thinking back to that moment. I can tell you that when you're out there in the World Series and you're standing on the line, you're so focused and you play with blinders on. You know it's a big deal, but you also know you got a job to do. You're a little nervous, and all of those things do certainly play into it, especially when they're so drastically different.

In 1993, standing out there in Toronto with the World Series logo up there, it was very different than standing on the line in Philadelphia. It was loud, it was raucous. In Philly, they were—that's your home park. You go up there, it's much quieter. And again, that's just because it was Toronto. It was a little different crowd. But I think you're so intense and you're so focused on the game, sometimes you don't allow yourself to actually enjoy it as you would.

When I think now, I go, "Man, why didn't I look around more? Why didn't I engage more?" And then you start—so like now I look back and I'm like, "Man, that was such a surreal moment, and I was young." So to understand how difficult it is to get to the World Series, to understand all that work you put in is for that one moment, you don't realize sometimes, at least I didn't, because I was young. Maybe if I was John Kruk, who hadn't been there before and had played eight, nine years, whatever it is, a little different. But man, it was a really special moment, for sure.

Robby Incmikoski: There's no doubt about that, Kevin, and that's why I asked that question. I've talked to many players. I just interviewed Joe Musgrove last week. He gave an in-depth look. He told us about the specific moment when he was told he needs Tommy John surgery. He gave us a real in-depth look, and we talked about how he threw the first no-hitter in Texas in that ballpark. You know what that moment is like, looking back on it now, versus what it was like in that moment.

So for you, we're 31 years removed from that. How different is it? What do you remember about what that feeling was like, and what is it like now, looking back on it as someone whose playing career ended a number of years ago?

Kevin Stocker: Yeah, you know what? You'd be silly when I was there. You're nervous. I mean, to say that you're not nervous, it's like, "Okay, yeah, there's nerves." When you get there and you stand on that line, your name is called, your first at-bat—there are some nerves that you have to work through. I think they're the same nerves that I had in my first big league game. It's the same idea. And so as a big league ballplayer in that profession, you learn how to play with those nerves and get past those. You're not intimidated, but you're certainly nervous.

When I look back now, like I said, I think now when I look back, I would have a lot more respect just on how difficult it was to get there and to understand—it's a different game. We didn't have social media. You didn't have a lot of things that creates the chaos and the havoc and the noise, and the ballparks were different. All of that now is very special to the players. We didn't have all that back then. You were just tense, and you're very focused.

I will say, not to get off topic, but I'm going to do it. One of the things I remember most about the World Series—and you can laugh, I guess—but it was amazing to me. You have all this buildup, because back then it was divisional play, just divisions. You didn't have wild card, all that. So we clinched, we beat the Braves, and you're going to Toronto, and you're like, "Yeah, it's a big deal." But when you step out there for the first game to take batting practice—so we go out, we're going to stretch, we take batting practice—I could not believe the amount of people and press around the batting cage for batting practice. It literally was like the regular season times 20. It was like all of a sudden you had Time Magazine and Newsweek. Like, who are these people? And they're asking some of the craziest questions.

We used to have fun and do the pie in the face or things like that, just whatever to keep you loose. Questions were like, instead of talking about Juan Guzman and who you're going to face and how do you get Roberto Alomar out, it was like, "Hey, what was the flavor of pie that you used?" Just the weirdest things came out. And it only happened at the World Series venue, man. We had ropes around the cage, a lot of directing like that. That was very different compared to just a regular season game, or even the NLCS for that matter. Those little memories stick out in your mind. That was one of those weird memories.

Robby Incmikoski: So let me ask you this. You work every single day with maybe 20-something days off to get there. You start in late February, and you work your ass off as a team. You go through the ups and downs of 162. You know you're talented. You know you have a chance, but as you know, to get to a World Series is fucking hard to do. It is hard to win in Major League Baseball. So what is it like? You're prepping for a game regularly in June, July, August, September, then all of a sudden, bang, you got all this media. Does that affect preparation at all?

Kevin Stocker: That's a really good question. Let me think—did the media part affect it? I'm just trying to think. Baseball players are so routine in the way you go about your business. I would say not really, because we're pretty prepared for that. And the ramp-up—the five dozen baseballs you have to sign—that's not a normal thing, but we're used to doing autographs. You're used to it. They left us enough time to mentally get prepared for it. So I don't think that the ramp-up and the preparation, the press, really got in the way too much, at least back then. Might be different now because of social media and the access is very different. Now everything's all planned out. I know guys like the superstars certainly would get hounded, but we didn't have all that back then. It was a little bit different, if that makes sense. It wasn't difficult to prepare for the World Series. No, not at all.

I look at it now and you see all the social media, people with cell phones, people with little handheld devices. It's wild what media, just in general, media has become.

Robby Incmikoski: So with that said, was there anything unique about playing a World Series—now, mind you, we obviously know the Jays were in the World Series the year before, so they were trying to win their second World Series at that time. Is there anything unique—and I don't know if the answer is even yes, so this could not even be going anywhere when I ask this question—but playing north of the border in a different country? Like they're representing an entire country, you're representing Philadelphia. Was there anything that felt like there's a little extra—just how big an event it was, given that the Blue Jays had done it for the second year in a row?

Kevin Stocker: No, no, I get it's a fair question. I think maybe from a fan's perspective, yes, but from a player's perspective, no, there really wasn't. It was never anything like "they're playing for their country and we're playing—" There was none of that. It was literally just still Major League Baseball. We represent Major League Baseball, both teams.

The difference, to be honest with you, that I saw—the only difference is that, I don't want to get anybody upset with this, but there's just a different way that they cheer. Toronto and Canadians cheer very differently than Philadelphians or even just Americans. If you go to a ballpark in Colorado, the time when they cheer, the noise makers, the chant—just all of that was very different. And as a player, it's noticeable.

Robby Incmikoski: Can you tell me an example? Would be like there's a big hit by a Blue Jay—let's say there's a big hit, or better yet, you have first and second and nobody out, and you're the Blue Jays. It's a big moment—nothing, quiet, crickets. Or there's nobody on, one out in the fifth, and they would be cheering like crazy.

Kevin Stocker: It was like—and I just remember a couple of times being like, "What are they cheering about?" Like literally asking myself, "Am I missing something? Is there somebody on base? Are there two outs?" I wasn't quite understanding some of that. When you're in the game and you're so focused and you're thinking about the game, a lot of times the crowd can help you with when they cheer, how they cheer—it's a big moment. Canada is a little different, and it was the same in Montreal, though. This is not a specific World Series thing. They just are different at cheering and the noise makers and stuff. It's just different.

Robby Incmikoski: That is—see, that's exactly the type of story you want to tell. Just the observations. This is the exact reason why I asked you to join us for this, because you have a perspective that no other fan has. You know what I mean? I was just sitting in my house rooting. I was glued to the TV. That crazy Game 6—oh yeah, that was in Philly. That one was—it was 15-14. Now I look at it—we had rain and cold. Imagine if you're working at the ballpark and you're in the food line, and you're not really paying attention, and all of a sudden you hear a huge cheer, and you're like, "Oh, what happened?" So you go over to the window and you look, and you can't figure out what's going on. That's kind of what it was like. You're out there playing, and I'm in the game, and then there would be this weird—everybody would start cheering all together, and you're like, "What am I missing?" And you're looking around. I was always a communicator—I over-communicated with Dave Hollins and Lenny Dykstra and guys, and I just felt like, "What am I missing?" It just was different. It wasn't bad or worse, it was just different.

Robby Incmikoski: Wow. All right, when I ask this question—and I've said this to guys before, because there are lessons to be learned in failure, whether individually or as a team—so when I ask this, I ask this with the utmost respect. What was it like when you're standing there at shortstop and Joe Carter hits the ball? I mean, do you have any memories from that moment, Stock, that you can share? You guys have worked so hard and just played your asses off, and you just came up short.

Kevin Stocker: Yeah, I've got two memories. One of the first memories is the ball, when he hit the ball. I literally thought it was a fly ball—like an out, fly ball out. I think it was to left field. I knew it was going to be pretty far, but I'm like, "That ball was hit so high." So I ran out there, and I'm like, "Okay, I got to make a play. We got to keep this game close," that sort of thing. So I remember that. And then when it went over the wall, it was like, "You got to be kidding me." I just couldn't comprehend that. So I definitely remember that particular play.

What I also remember, and this is one of those things—at the moment, looking back at the moment—I didn't watch them do the pile. So I'm walking in, he's running around, and he's cheering. You can see it all over. I didn't watch the pile. I didn't watch their cheer. I was more like, "I'm just heading to the dugout slowly," and I kind of was into my own thoughts. If I went back now to do it again, I think I would have said, "Oh, that's it—it's so over." I think I probably would have watched their celebration a little bit more and how that all went down. I know it sounds silly, but I do remember that part so well.

Robby Incmikoski: Keep talking. I gotta let my dog out. Go ahead. No worries at all. I can hear you.

Kevin Stocker: Yeah, that's interesting you say that because—one guy I interviewed was Mike Bacsik who gave up Barry Bonds' 756th homer. And here's the thing, man, just to give you a little bit about how I approach this: I've never thrown one pitch in professional baseball in my life as a pitcher or as a hitter. So I realize, having spent 16 years around the game, just how hard the game is. When I ask these questions, none of it is meant as an insult or a backhanded compliment.

I interviewed Mike Bacsik, and he talked about what it's like when he gave up the homer. He was sitting in the dugout waiting, and he was real gracious about talking about it. He said, "Hey, I'm a cup-of-coffee guy in my career. I just happened to be known for giving up this homer, and I might not have my broadcast career if I didn't give up that homer." So there are lessons to be learned and blessings that can happen in hard moments.

So you went right into the dugout. Is that right? Or excuse me, into the clubhouse. You did not see the pile?

Kevin Stocker: I didn't stay, and I didn't sprint off. I think it was like, "It's over." I turned around—and you can actually kind of see it in the highlight—I think I just kind of slowly jogged off. Didn't really watch them celebrate. They celebrated on the plate and more by their dugout. And I just came off and got my stuff and went up to the dugout, then to the clubhouse.

I do remember it took literally 30 minutes. Everybody came in. It was like, I swear it was like 30 minutes, half hour. Everybody's in disbelief. But then there was this surreal moment, I think, where everybody had realized—this is among the players—fans went nuts about Mitch Williams and all that kind of stuff. We never did any of that, because what Mitch did, putting guys on and doing it, was normal for us. We're like, "That's just how we play. That's how we got there." We wouldn't have been there without Mitch. But at the same time, he always did this kind of stuff. No one had any ill will toward Mitch. We just—it took like 30 minutes, and then we started shaking hands and slapping guys on the back and starting to realize, I think, kind of what we did as a team, and we were really proud of that. Yes, we would have loved to win, trust me, but we also understood how far we had come. And that took about 30 minutes.

Robby Incmikoski: And that's why I was saying that, Stock. I'm 49—that's my favorite team of all time. It's my favorite baseball team of my entire fandom in baseball. I love the '08 team, don't get me wrong, because they did it, but Philly people related to that team. It was a bunch of hard-working guys, grinders, and you're right. You are not in that World Series without Mitch Williams. There's no question about it. You guys are not there without him. And it's just such a band of misfits and characters and funny dudes. You had Jim Eisenreich, kind of straight-laced guy, Milt Thompson, kind of quiet. And then you had Dykstra and Kruk and Danny Jackson, all these funny characters.

So that clubhouse—can you just describe after Game 6 ended, after Carter hit the homer? Can you just tell us a little bit what the vibe was like as you walked in? Was it quiet?

Kevin Stocker: It's super quiet. And when you walk in, you're super quiet. To be real specific, you walk in—and again, I'm speaking for myself, but what I remember is you walk in and you basically take off your uniform, you might have your glove or whatever. You go right to your locker, you sit in your locker, pop your cleats off—and again, it's kind of the normal routine. And then you kind of sit there and think about it. You're thinking about what just happened.

You're feeling it. And you're feeling how it's over. And literally, it's not like I'm looking to my right or left saying, "Hey, it's okay," or "Don't worry about it." It was quiet. There was just nothing. And like I said, after a certain amount of time, which felt like it literally was about 25-30 minutes—that's when, and I can't remember who or how it happened, but guys kind of got up, you start moving around, shaking hands, "Hey, we had a good year." And then you kind of get past it. It still hurts. It still hurts, right? But this is a team about picking each other up, because that's how we were. Everybody kind of loved each other, we respected each other, and then it was normal after that. You go through your interviews, you go to the training room, and that's kind of how it went down. But it's super quiet when you go in there. I mean, no one's going in throwing stuff, no one's yelling, no one's screaming. I think there was a lot of respect for Joe Carter hitting the home run as well. I mean, just how it went down.

The whole thing was—that game that we were talking about, that 14-15 game—the whole series, in any World Series, no matter what you do, especially in this one that I remember because I was in it, you're always going to have a few guys put on an absolute show. And even though I'm playing, I respect and love watching those guys. Lenny Dykstra and Paul Molitor were just—they put on absolute clinics back and forth, back and forth. I mean, it was something to watch, and you start to think back, and you respect that, even as a player.

Robby Incmikoski: Oh, no doubt. Molitor's a real—I got to know Molly a little bit when I was in Minnesota. Hall of Famer. Joe Carter's, as far as I know, legendarily known as being such a nice guy, such a good human being. I had a chance to meet him, tell him about my fandom. I was like, "Joe, you broke my heart when I was a kid, man." He just kind of laughed. He took a picture with me, like, acting like I was choking him. It was kind of funny. I was like, "Joe, how could you?"

So I guess my other question is this: that team, that '93 team, lived as legends in the city of Philadelphia for 15 more years until they won it in 2008. What was that like for you guys as a group to just impact the city the way you guys did? Because it had been a decade since they'd been in the World Series, and 13 years since they last won it.

Kevin Stocker: Well, I mean, it's fantastic. It's fantastic to be able—it's my first experience. I was a rookie—to be able to walk down the street and people are like, "Hey, thanks, man." I still get that today. Like, "Hey, thanks for a great '93." They're not saying "Good job," which most of them still do, but they say thank you, because it was fun to watch. It was fun baseball. We played hard. I think the team was relatable.

So I mean, to be able to have that impact on an entire city was new for me as a baseball player. I don't think I realized how much of an impact until I left. I got traded to Tampa, which was a brand new team. They thought we were a soccer team. I mean, I was like, "Come on, man." It was crazy down there. And then I went to Anaheim, and they only cared if you won. They didn't get on you or anything, but if you won, they'd show up. If you didn't, whatever—we'll go surfing. In Philly, man, that—and so when I left, I started to realize, "Oh, that's something different that you have in the Philadelphia area." And really it's the Northeast, but Philadelphia is special.

So that '93 team—I don't know, maybe that was like—what I think now, we talk so much about the current team, about Rob Thompson, once he lets them be themselves and go out there and be yourself. And '93, Fregosi did the same thing with us. We had characters, yes, but everybody could be themselves for the most part. You go be you. You be you. Be this guy. Kruk is going to be himself. Darren is Darren. And Jim just had to manage that. And most times, the players did, and there was a lot of freedom in that. And that might have been kind of one of the first times, I think back then, that a team really did that, and the fans related to that, the honesty of it.

Robby Incmikoski: That's great, man. So we'll move on from that. Can I ask a little bit about playing in Tampa that first year? Because I want to give a perspective, because that '98 team—and I thought when I looked, I thought you were on that original team. Larry Rothschild was your manager that year. You had Dan Jennings, your scouting director—Dan, former Marlins manager. What was that experience like, Stock, when you're playing—you were the only expansion team that year?

Kevin Stocker: No, there were two. There was Arizona.

Robby Incmikoski: Right, the Diamondbacks. Because they won it. No, that shows you—Arizona. It was Colorado and Miami.

Kevin Stocker: Yeah, you're right. Colorado, Miami.

Robby Incmikoski: How do you—so you go from a team that was accustomed to big expectations, you'd won a World Series—now you come to Tampa, it's a brand new team, a brand new operation. What was that like for a veteran guy like yourself going there?

Kevin Stocker: Fair question. All right, so let me give you the rundown of the emotions on this. So I got traded and didn't want to—didn't want to go. I loved Philadelphia, but I understood it. So then I go through a period of excitement. I'm like, "Okay, I'm excited." Something new. You talk yourself into it. I signed a contract. I'm like, "All right. They want me here. They want a veteran guy in the infield." I wasn't the only one. Boggs was there and McGriff and that sort of thing. So we went into camp thinking that—you always think that you have a chance. We got—we're okay.

I think what was tough was they were—I didn't realize the challenges of a new team. And I got to give you some examples that you won't understand. So let me give you a couple. One, I went down. This was in January, and so at that time, Tropicana Field was there, but our spring training site was in downtown St. Petersburg, half a mile from the stadium. And I'll never forget going to the dentist in St. Petersburg in January before spring training, and I'm sitting in the chair and the gal's cleaning my teeth. And she said, "Oh, so what do you do?" And I said, "Oh, well, I'm here in town. I play for the Devil Rays." And she says, "Oh, is that a new soccer team?"

Now, mind you, if you put your head out the window of the office, I'm pretty sure you could see Tropicana Field, and yet she had no clue that we were coming. Now that was just—it's a new team, okay, so that was the first thing.

Another thing would be going to the ballpark. This is a very practical thing in baseball, because players travel so much. It's so important to a player that the team and the ownership, or whoever, takes care of your family. Now the Phillies, I only knew them, and Bill Giles, Nancy Giles, the Phillies organization, just took care of the family. They had a kids' room. They had whatever you needed. It's really comforting to a player.

When we go down there, they had not heard about this philosophy. So we go into the first game and there's no—the wives would want to come, but there's nowhere to help with the kids. What do we do with our babies and our kids? It was an education process. So my wife, couple other wives, Debbie Boggs and so forth, had to go to ownership and say, "This is how we're going to do it." So they had to kind of teach them that. Those are challenges of a new team that are just—can be distracting.

I think there was—Vince Naimoli was an interesting owner and tried to get us to buy season tickets for our families. Like, what do you mean? We got to buy a season ticket for my wife to come watch her husband play? They didn't know. So just some of those were the challenges of being with a new team. I liked the idea of it, but on the same note, I really struggled as well, so that didn't help.

Robby Incmikoski: So you go from playing in Toronto to playing in Tampa—obviously, we're not harping on their attendance issues. I'm not hammering any team or any player at all in this whole book, or an owner. What I am asking, though, however, is you have to adjust to a new environment. It's a new thing. When you're in San Diego, Arizona, Miami, there's just so many things to compete with when you're a sports franchise. You have the beach, you have—there's just so many different factors on whether somebody's going to go to a baseball game or they're going to sit on the beach. In St. Louis, they're like, "Hey, you could have my firstborn, or you could have my World Series tickets."

What was that aspect like? Trying to get acclimated to a new fan base and then getting acclimated to a new team and new players to root for?

Kevin Stocker: It was tough. It was tough. I expected it to be the same. I didn't think it was going to be different, just because I didn't know any different. I came up, I was drafted, came up with the Phillies, and then we stunk, but I was still getting fans. I just thought that it would be similar, and I think it was—it was a big adjustment period. Selling out opening day and then having 10,000 fans the next day was not expected, and that was difficult. It was, and certainly a challenge. And I found that a challenge really everywhere. Even in Anaheim when I was there, it was a little bit different as well.

Just getting used to being out of your comfort zone—it's still one of the biggest challenges in baseball, I think, as a player, is moving team to team and being able to just remember it's still baseball and being comfortable. I liked—even though Philadelphia is hard, and the fans were honest, you might get booed, which I did, but I also got cheered, and they appreciated effort. So you put out that effort and they appreciate it and cheer for you. That wasn't everywhere. So yeah, it was difficult. I think that part was difficult, getting used to it.

Robby Incmikoski: Yeah, there's no doubt. There's nothing controversial about saying that, of course. Let me ask you this. When you go into that clubhouse, you have not one but two Hall of Famers on the back ends of their career. You got the Crime Dog, and then you got Wade Boggs. Wade's one of the greatest hitters in the history of baseball. So how did they impact a team full of guys? You're kind of that mid-level guy—probably been in the league about maybe five, six years at that point in time. You knew your way around the big leagues. You knew what it was like. You knew what the routine was like. What was that like, having those two guys kind of—maybe, I don't know, again, I could be completely making this up—did they kind of stabilize things? Did they kind of talk to some of the young guys? How did that dynamic work out, having a few veteran guys in there, established, headed toward the Hall of Fame, along with guys like yourself, who have been around the league for a couple years by that point?

Kevin Stocker: Yeah, well, it certainly gives the team some reputation, gives them a little respectability with those guys. Now, I became really good friends with both of them, more Fred than anything, because Fred was a golfer, so we liked to go out and golf. But neither of them were real vocal leaders. They just were not vocal guys. I played with some other guys that were average players, everyday players, but they weren't Hall of Famers or anything, that were really good vocal leaders. These two weren't that, but I did love the fact that I could go to them for advice and things like that.

I don't know that they really did anything in—when trying to understand your question in regards to that—we had Juan Guzman and Wilson Alvarez. Dave Martinez was playing right field. I was at short. We had John Flaherty behind the plate. We had—we just couldn't figure out how to win. That's the trick, right? Is, how do you win? Now, I've got my own opinions in regards to the stadium and all that kind of stuff too, but playing with those guys was just so much fun.

But at the time, I'm just teammates with them. I'm teammates with Fred and with Wade. And I'm trying to figure out, "How do I talk to Wade during a game?" I'll never forget—it's a funny story. I don't know, we're only a few games in, and I always relayed the signs to my third baseman. Now, I would let him know when there's something off-speed coming, so changeup, curveball, slider—I might say their last name. And so with Wade, I'm like, "Hey, Wade, hey, Wade," and I get nothing. So I remember one day trying to get his attention, because I want to tell him that I'm playing over. So I'm like, "Wade, Wade." And I'm 20 feet away and he won't turn around, nothing.

So I come into the dugout and I said, "Wade." I said, "I'm trying to get your attention. How do I get your attention?" And he goes, "Hey, man, I got so many people over the years that have called my name, I don't respond to that. You have to do this"—and he whistled. I'm like, "Are you serious?" He goes, "Yeah, just whistle." And I look, and I'm like, "Okay." I go out there the next inning, and I go—and his head just snaps around. He looks right at me. I'm like, "You gotta be kidding me."

So the whole time I played with him, that was how I got ahold of Wade. It didn't matter where he was. He could be in the dugout. He looked. Little nuances like that, things like that, were kind of fun. But yeah, I was there on the field when he got his 3,000th hit, which was a home run. That was cool, but those two weren't enough for the organization at that time. They were still new, had the growing pains and that sort of thing.

Robby Incmikoski: We're gonna get booted off here in four minutes. One last question. What was that like when he hit that 3,000th? That's the yellow seat. It was cool. The yellow seat is now commemorated there. When he did it, I have a picture. It was so cool. What do you remember about that specific moment?

Kevin Stocker: Well, I think the anticipation of just knowing he's going to get it—you know it's going to happen—but to get it as a home run, come on. You couldn't write that. He's in his hometown, super happy for him, just the elation of it and the fans as well.

People don't know that about Wade Boggs—honestly, Wade was one of the best power hitters in the game of baseball that never purposely hit home runs. But of all the guys I took batting practice with, his first round, he would take and hit home runs longer than anybody else that I knew. And I had a long conversation about it, and we talked about that—we don't have enough time now—but then he'd go back into his base hit mode. But it was just—it was fun, it was exciting, and we were all so happy for Wade.

Robby Incmikoski: Dude, that is amazing. I'm going to stop recording here because this is just tremendous.